TO DET:
Kessel (70)
Kapanen (82)
Bahl (85)
OTT - 2nd
TO NYR:
Toews (86)
Good luck on the rebuild to DET. I think the moves your making are setting up for sure, draft often and smart! Kessel was going to be a cap casualty so I hope he scores some goals for DET. Kapanen couldn't quite crack my nhl-crew and Bahl is a tall prospect in a good pool I have. Obviously coming back is the added top 6 forward I've been looking to compliment. Novak-Dal Colle can't do it all themselves.
NYR / DET
Moderator: SharksGM
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DetroitGM
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 9:43 am
Re: NYR / DET
Confirmed.
I don't typically like trading for depth, but I feel that Detroit needs it desperately. I see both Kapanen and Kessel as Toews-lights, with Kessel someone i might seek to move on again later (possibly at the deadline) for more young assets. Bahl is set up to be a great shutdown defenceman, increasingly of value with the number of small defencemen at the high end of the draft, and the 2nd is what one would expect.
I don't typically like trading for depth, but I feel that Detroit needs it desperately. I see both Kapanen and Kessel as Toews-lights, with Kessel someone i might seek to move on again later (possibly at the deadline) for more young assets. Bahl is set up to be a great shutdown defenceman, increasingly of value with the number of small defencemen at the high end of the draft, and the 2nd is what one would expect.
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SharksGM
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8539
- Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:21 pm
Re: NYR / DET
I'm afraid I'm going to have to reject this, albeit reluctantly.
While I understand the motivation for Detroit to rebuild, Toews has scored 40+ goals in five of his last six seasons and I feel like the return doesn't reflect his value, especially considering that Detroit is taking back significant salary in Kapanen (who is now too old to stash in the AHL).
As per league rules, NYR/DET may amend the deal and/or request further explanation via PM.
While I understand the motivation for Detroit to rebuild, Toews has scored 40+ goals in five of his last six seasons and I feel like the return doesn't reflect his value, especially considering that Detroit is taking back significant salary in Kapanen (who is now too old to stash in the AHL).
As per league rules, NYR/DET may amend the deal and/or request further explanation via PM.
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NYRNYRNYR
- Posts: 1901
- Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:00 am
Re: NYR / DET (Amended Offer)
TO DET:
Bahl (85)
Lundestrom (71)
OTT - 2nd (2020)
NYR - 3rd (2021)
NYR - 2nd (2022)
Kessel (70)
Kapanen (82)
TO NYR:
Toews (86)
I appreciated the opportunity per the rules to discuss the deal further. After doing so, here is the new negotiated deal.
As SJS mentioned originally, it was a "reluctant" rejection. It was close, but there should be more there for a player like Toews, which I can understand. Bahl and the 2nd pick this year were major parts of the first deal and DET wanted to do what he could to keep those in - which made sense. In fairness to him then, and to ensure he kept those key pieces, I've added a 3rd next year and a 2nd the year after that. I believe this adds value "over the life of the deal" and fits with DETs asset-rebuild over the time period. On top of that, I added a late 2017 first round pick, Lundestrom. All of that tops off a few decent stop gap players that DET can use for parts, or to play some heavy minutes over the next few years.
It felt like a lot to add, but I am getting a great player in Toews. I wish you luck DET! And thanks for good lessons SJS. You've been doing this awhile.
Bahl (85)
Lundestrom (71)
OTT - 2nd (2020)
NYR - 3rd (2021)
NYR - 2nd (2022)
Kessel (70)
Kapanen (82)
TO NYR:
Toews (86)
I appreciated the opportunity per the rules to discuss the deal further. After doing so, here is the new negotiated deal.
As SJS mentioned originally, it was a "reluctant" rejection. It was close, but there should be more there for a player like Toews, which I can understand. Bahl and the 2nd pick this year were major parts of the first deal and DET wanted to do what he could to keep those in - which made sense. In fairness to him then, and to ensure he kept those key pieces, I've added a 3rd next year and a 2nd the year after that. I believe this adds value "over the life of the deal" and fits with DETs asset-rebuild over the time period. On top of that, I added a late 2017 first round pick, Lundestrom. All of that tops off a few decent stop gap players that DET can use for parts, or to play some heavy minutes over the next few years.
It felt like a lot to add, but I am getting a great player in Toews. I wish you luck DET! And thanks for good lessons SJS. You've been doing this awhile.
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DetroitGM
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 9:43 am
Re: NYR / DET
Confirmed again, with the additions.
So I will try to breakdown my thinking a bit. First and foremost, as we all know, it's a cap league. While Toews has put up good numbers, he has a fair cap hit and attributes that are not actually as good as you might think from someone consistently in the Rocket Richard hunt (if I'm honest, I looked at his attributes, and not his stats, before initially agreeing to the original deal, and was then surprised to see his stats).
Meanwhile the return. What I took over, I looked at the Wings and saw a non-playoff team with literally just 2 players under 26 of any quality (current or potential quality), and only 1 pick in the first two rounds of the upcoming draft. I love a rebuild, that's why I happily took over the team, so that's the direction I went.
The key piece? Kevin Bahl. I have no idea how he dropped to the mid-second round, because I see him as the perfect kind of player for a league with such a regimented cap system. He's going to be 85+ defence and yet he might never make more than ~2.5mil per season. Sure, he has no offense to speak of, but defence wins championships, no?
After that, in the original deal, it was more about depth. I like Kapanen, fully developed I think he'll be a second line player. Kessel is about the same, though more expensive than I would like. And a 2nd, to further stock the cupboards.
With the changes to the deal, we've added Lundestrom, a 3rd, and another 2nd, meaning I'm essentially turning one Toews into 5 or 6 good prospects - getting more than double the useful under-26 players in one deal than I had on the entire roster to start with. And of course, some of that can and will be moved on, used to upgrade further.
To be clear, I was content with the original deal. This is just icing on the cake for me.
So I will try to breakdown my thinking a bit. First and foremost, as we all know, it's a cap league. While Toews has put up good numbers, he has a fair cap hit and attributes that are not actually as good as you might think from someone consistently in the Rocket Richard hunt (if I'm honest, I looked at his attributes, and not his stats, before initially agreeing to the original deal, and was then surprised to see his stats).
Meanwhile the return. What I took over, I looked at the Wings and saw a non-playoff team with literally just 2 players under 26 of any quality (current or potential quality), and only 1 pick in the first two rounds of the upcoming draft. I love a rebuild, that's why I happily took over the team, so that's the direction I went.
The key piece? Kevin Bahl. I have no idea how he dropped to the mid-second round, because I see him as the perfect kind of player for a league with such a regimented cap system. He's going to be 85+ defence and yet he might never make more than ~2.5mil per season. Sure, he has no offense to speak of, but defence wins championships, no?
After that, in the original deal, it was more about depth. I like Kapanen, fully developed I think he'll be a second line player. Kessel is about the same, though more expensive than I would like. And a 2nd, to further stock the cupboards.
With the changes to the deal, we've added Lundestrom, a 3rd, and another 2nd, meaning I'm essentially turning one Toews into 5 or 6 good prospects - getting more than double the useful under-26 players in one deal than I had on the entire roster to start with. And of course, some of that can and will be moved on, used to upgrade further.
To be clear, I was content with the original deal. This is just icing on the cake for me.