2013-14 Salary Cap Numbers

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:24 pm

ANA: $60332134 with 23 players
BOS: $55001090 with 25 players
BUF: $61417857 with 20 players
CAR: $58622500 with 24 players
CBJ: $61759102 with 21 players
CGY: $56404387 with 24 players
CHI: $61952381 with 21 players
COL: $59450723 with 23 players
DAL: $56922170 with 23 players
DET: $58626073 with 21 players
EDM: $59209391 with 21 players
FLA: $61248397 with 21 players
LA: $59742179 with 20 players
MIN: $53746442 with 22 players
MTL: $60916182 with 20 players
NAS: $60902500 with 20 players
NJ: $61328266 with 22 players
NYI: $58643749 with 23 players
NYR: $55724263 with 23 players
OTT: $50725000 with 22 players
PHI: $58472679 with 23 players
PHX: $61792423 with 21 players
PIT: $59020301 with 21 players
SJ: $61097188 with 21 players
STL: $61850699 with 22 players
TB: $58979435 with 21 players
TOR: $58147325 with 22 players
VAN: $61956460 with 23 players
WPG: $61037500 with 22 players
WSH: $59373011 with 23 players

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:04 pm

The number for Phoenix is counting Kaberle's entire salary rather than the 50% I'm repsonsible for.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:20 pm

Parker wrote:The number for Phoenix is counting Kaberle's entire salary rather than the 50% I'm repsonsible for.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:33 pm

Was 50% of Kaberle added to my number?

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:41 pm

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:Was 50% of Kaberle added to my number?

That helpful animated gif of the guy applauding should answer all your questions.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:27 pm

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:Was 50% of Kaberle added to my number?

Yes.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:32 pm

Parker wrote:
Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:Was 50% of Kaberle added to my number?
That helpful animated gif of the guy applauding should answer all your questions.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:21 am

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:52 pm

Updated. With all the pro-rated salaries and buyouts, it's a shitshow. So double check, and if your number doesn't match mine I'll take a more in-depth look.

COL is under after the Downie demotion.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:00 pm

Am I still being charged Kaberle's full cap hit or what? I don't think it's mathematically possible that I'm over the cap, since I've shed more salary than I've brought in since when I started the season right at the cap.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:43 pm

$61,237,500 for your current roster, but you owe Hertl and Grant $889,230.77.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:58 pm

CapsGM wrote:$61,237,500 for your current roster, but you owe Hertl and Grant $889,230.77.

I don't understand how that's not offset by the percentage of Gardiner's, Namestnikov's, Allen's, and Nestrasil's contracts not accrued during the time they spent NOT on my team's roster.

VancouverCanucksGM · Post by **VancouverCanucksGM** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:27 am

CapsGM wrote:VAN: $62305870 with 22 players

Working on it.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:53 am

Parker wrote:
CapsGM wrote:$61,237,500 for your current roster, but you owe Hertl and Grant $889,230.77.
I don't understand how that's not offset by the percentage of Gardiner's, Namestnikov's, Allen's, and Nestrasil's contracts not accrued during the time they spent NOT on my team's roster.

This shows our need to simplify the salary cap process when we make some changes for next season.

Tim acknowledged in our Committee forum that it will be an issue to look at guys who played in the AHL prior to being traded. We made a post about it that stated:

A player that has played more EHEC games than AHL games in a season for his old team will have his salary pro-rated accordingly if he remains on his new team's pro roster. If he is demoted by his new team, he does not count against either team's cap for the duration he spends in the AHL.

A traded player that has not played an EHEC game for his old team during a season is exempt from pro-ration and counts 100% towards his new team's cap.
i.e. Charlie Coyle has played for CGY but not for CHI - CGY is on the hook for 100% of his salary (I need to go into EHM and manually check who's played for who, so this isn't reflected above yet).

Tim's in the process of trying to find a way to automate this. Bear with us while we work through this and we will most certainly try to find a better way to handle all of our financial policy items in the future.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:54 am

There's no easy way for me to pull time spent in AHL, let alone time spent on another club's AHL team.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:15 am

Yeah, this is complicated. Just so I understand it correctly, if a team is right at the cap and trades away a guy making $1M after a quarter of the season, then immediately calls up another guy making $1M to replace the traded guy, the team is now $250k over the cap, because they're on the hook for a quarter of the traded player's salary, but also 100% of the called-up player's salary?

Post by **SharksGM** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:31 am

The simplest way to keep track of salaries is to add up cap total for each team every day they play - look up the teams playing that day in schedule.ehm, then add up the salaries of the players from players.ehm (with an extra file for re-entry waiver splits and buyout penalties). I offered to code this up but nobody seemed very interested. The main downside would be that someone would have to remember to do this every day.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:08 pm

SharksGM wrote:The simplest way to keep track of salaries is to add up cap total for each team every day they play - look up the teams playing that day in schedule.ehm, then add up the salaries of the players from players.ehm (with an extra file for re-entry waiver splits and buyout penalties). I offered to code this up but nobody seemed very interested. The main downside would be that someone would have to remember to do this every day.

I don't remember your offer.

If you want to beta test it with somebody, I'd appreciate it.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:09 pm

Parker wrote:Yeah, this is complicated. Just so I understand it correctly, if a team is right at the cap and trades away a guy making $1M after a quarter of the season, then immediately calls up another guy making $1M to replace the traded guy, the team is now $250k over the cap, because they're on the hook for a quarter of the traded player's salary, but also 100% of the called-up player's salary?

Yes, which isn't fair. I agree.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:08 pm

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:Yes, which isn't fair. I agree.

Ugh. So I need to cut $626,731 then? Gay.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:39 pm

Parker wrote:
Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:Yes, which isn't fair. I agree.
Ugh. So I need to cut $626,731 then? Gay.

Appears that way, though I don't remember Hertl playing for you at all.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:04 pm

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:Appears that way, though I don't remember Hertl playing for you at all.

So does that mean I'm good with just sending down Nestrasil?

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:10 pm

Okay, Sutherby sent down, that frees up $850k and should get me straightened out. No more in-season trades for me.

Post by **SharksGM** » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:00 pm

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:
SharksGM wrote:The simplest way to keep track of salaries is to add up cap total for each team every day they play - look up the teams playing that day in schedule.ehm, then add up the salaries of the players from players.ehm (with an extra file for re-entry waiver splits and buyout penalties). I offered to code this up but nobody seemed very interested. The main downside would be that someone would have to remember to do this every day.
I don't remember your offer.

If you want to beta test it with somebody, I'd appreciate it.

I already have a program that spits out players.ehm to a spreadsheet and calculates cap hits for each team. There's some extra work involved in tracking salaries on a game-by-game basis using schedule.ehm. It's not too complicated but would take more time than I have right now. And it would be possible to do this in php and have it be part of the website but that would also take some time to implement and test.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:29 am

Updated. It's becoming a clusterfuck. If you disagree with my numbers, contact me via PM. Doing my best to keep the pro-rated salaries updated here, so check that too.

Post by **SharksGM** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:05 am

I've got a program mostly working to do this shit, but there are a few issues:

1. If we want to get this right, we would technically need players.ehm going back every sim day to the start of the season (fuck that), or at least a record of when players were traded, assuming they were on pro rosters the whole time (seems like Tim has that already).

2. I was hoping to just implement LTIR as a negative cap penalty, but that's not the way it works, so it needs to be handled separately. Basically every team needs an ongoing list of buyout and re-entry penalties, plus LTIR exemptions.

3. In The Real NHL, you can't bank savings from LTIR - it only lets you exceed the cap temporarily. But you can certainly bank savings from keep a minimal 20-man roster. This means that especially motivated GMs can save cap space by keeping as many players as possible down, which is okay until injuries hit, or you decide you want to play one guy and send the other down... basically, it encourages frivolous sending down of anyone you possibly can.

The Real NHL gets around this by having much more generous waiver eligibility. Almost every player over 25 must pass through waivers, some as young as 22 are waiver-eligible based on experience, and two-way contracts do not exempt a player from waivers (in fact, they haven't since like 2003). So there's definitely more risk in sending down players just to save cap space in the NHL.

On the other hand, the most recent lockout (ugh) got rid of re-entry waivers, so calling up players is easier. Instead, to limit the effectiveness of stuffing shitty contracts in the AHL, they count all cap hits in excess of 1M.

Anyway, the point of all of that is that if we actually do count cap hits properly (and I think we ought to try), I suspect it will result in a lot of otherwise pointless shuffling of players back and forth from the AHL, so it's worth thinking about before jumping right into it.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:51 am

LTIR is a temporary solution to go over the cap. Tim is calculating it as taking the player's salary away, which is effectively the same thing.

A lot of teams seem to be carrying a 20-man roster, at least the ones close to the cap are anyway from what I've seen.

We can alter the waiver rules for next season. Part of the problem is that we've got so many young guys from draft classes moving around, but at least they're all under 25. I knew the NHL didn't use two-ways, and there are a lot of guys on two-ways (take Paille for example) who would never have one in the real NHL. Basically all of the veterans we have in the AHL are guys that wouldn't get two-way contracts. But, those don't really help the teams because they sign those guys for 1.5M and then can't use them as injury replacements because they make too much money.

We can count large AHL salaries as NHL cap hits. That seems fair. Would detract from the 1.5M signings of NHL hasbeens and make free agency easier.

If we can automate the entire thing, it would be great. I don't know if that's possible or not. Maybe there's a way to simultaneously make transactions on the website as well as in the file? That way, the site is keeping track of pro-rated contracts, call-ups and send downs, and automatically spitting out a current cap number?

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:13 am

SharksGM wrote:1. If we want to get this right, we would technically need players.ehm going back every sim day to the start of the season (fuck that), or at least a record of when players were traded, assuming they were on pro rosters the whole time (seems like Tim has that already).

For what it's worth, I do have an archive of almost every day's savefile. I might be missing a day or two, but I've got 95% of them for sure.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:20 am

SharksGM wrote:1. If we want to get this right, we would technically need players.ehm going back every sim day to the start of the season (fuck that), or at least a record of when players were traded, assuming they were on pro rosters the whole time (seems like Tim has that already).

That's been a manual process though. I'd love to have it automated.

Post by **SharksGM** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:03 pm

Parker wrote:
SharksGM wrote:1. If we want to get this right, we would technically need players.ehm going back every sim day to the start of the season (fuck that), or at least a record of when players were traded, assuming they were on pro rosters the whole time (seems like Tim has that already).
For what it's worth, I do have an archive of almost every day's savefile. I might be missing a day or two, but I've got 95% of them for sure.

Cool. That will make it easier to track salaries from the beginning of the season.

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:If we can automate the entire thing, it would be great. I don't know if that's possible or not. Maybe there's a way to simultaneously make transactions on the website as well as in the file? That way, the site is keeping track of pro-rated contracts, call-ups and send downs, and automatically spitting out a current cap number?

I don't think I can make this automated on the site. It's not much harder with php, but I know less about php and already had most of the code written up to make it a standalone program. Plus if necessary I can update it to convert players.ehm to spreadsheet formats (csv) and back, which is what I intended it to do in the first place.

Right now the way it works is it logs which players were on the pro roster for each team's games, then calculates the cap hits. Penalties and LTIR would still need to be updated manually, but as long as those files are kept up-to-date, the cap hits will get tallied up automatically.

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:LTIR is a temporary solution to go over the cap. Tim is calculating it as taking the player's salary away, which is effectively the same thing.

Capgeek schooled me on this - it's not exactly the same. The NHL only gives a bonus cushion if you're close to the cap. For example, with a 48M payroll with a 50M cap, if you get a 4M player on LTIR, your max cap is then 48M + 4M = 52M, not 54M. If you get a 2M player on LTIR, you actually don't get any bonus cap space, *unless* you call up some players first (to bump up your cap hit), THEN place the player on LTIR (yes, that sounds pretty dumb to me too).

The main point to take away, though, is that in the first scenario, if we just subtract 4M from the payroll, then you get a 44M payroll on a 50M cap and start banking tons of cap space which you can use later in the season, whereas that doesn't happen in the NHL - you're allowed to spend up to 52M, but you would only bank 50M - 48M = 2M. That's a pretty big difference for a seriously long-term injury.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:23 pm

CapsGM wrote:$61,237,500 for your current roster, but you owe Hertl and Grant $889,230.77.

Just out of curiosity, where is this number coming from?

Hertl ($1,750,000) + Grant ($3,350,000) = $5,100,000 * (14 games played / 82 games total) = $870,731.71

or using Boston's games played:

Hertl ($1,750,000) + Grant ($3,350,000) = $5,100,000 * (12 games played / 82 games total) = $746,341.46

an average of both:

Hertl ($1,750,000) + Grant ($3,350,000) = $5,100,000 * (13 games played / 82 games total) = $808,536.58

Plus, I get $58,536.59, $63,414.63, or $68,292.68 of relief for Gardiner, depending on whether 12, 13, or 14 games is used. I'm assuming that 13 games would be the right one, since it averages mine and Boston's games played, but 14 for Hertl/Grant and 12 for Gardiner also makes sense. At any rate, my net cost shouldn't be more than $735,121.95. If my calculations are wrong maybe someone could explain to me how the official number is calculated.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:59 pm

http://ehechockey.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3170

Calculated by days spent with new team and days in the season.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:29 pm

CapsGM wrote:http://ehechockey.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3170

Calculated by days spent with new team and days in the season.

Shit, I don't know why I thought it was games played rather than time served. Sorry.

Post by **SharksGM** » Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:29 pm

I have a program for y'all to test:

http://ehechockey.com/files/filereader.zip

Read the readme, follow the instructions and try it out.

Note, if you still have 32-bit Windows, it might not work. I can only test it on 64-bit Windows 7. Well, I guess I could try it on Vista too in case anyone still uses it.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:32 pm

Updated. NYR is under after demoting Theodore.

As usual, if you disagree with these numbers, send me your calculations via PM and I'll look it over more closely.

GM Office Q · Post by **GM Office Q** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:20 pm

When are penalties handed out?

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:37 pm

Does my number reflect Rankin's assignment to AHL, and Rene Bourque at half price?

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:40 pm

My number doesn't seem right with both Kitsyn and Donskoi on LTIR.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:42 am

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:My number doesn't seem right with both Kitsyn and Donskoi on LTIR.

Your cap number? If you mean your roster number, the spreadsheet is counting all players on the roster regardless of injury. What's the number you get?

But on that note, the fact that you traded Boyle and now he's injured means I miscalculated Calgary's cap number - I added Boyle's full salary to CGY's LTIR rather than the ~70% I should have.

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:09 am

AvsGM wrote:When are penalties handed out?

I don't think I have seen a penalty handed out yet

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:03 am

CapsGM wrote:
Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:My number doesn't seem right with both Kitsyn and Donskoi on LTIR.
Your cap number? If you mean your roster number, the spreadsheet is counting all players on the roster regardless of injury. What's the number you get?

But on that note, the fact that you traded Boyle and now he's injured means I miscalculated Calgary's cap number - I added Boyle's full salary to CGY's LTIR rather than the ~70% I should have.

Yeah, this is a fucking mess. One of the worst ideas I've had.

GM Office Q · Post by **GM Office Q** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:28 pm

It seems like the salary cap is more of a guideline than a rule. I have a couple of suggestions:

- Let's at least start counting games where teams are playing above the cap. It shouldn't be that hard since only a few teams are over, but it's frustrating when you lose to a team over the cap. IMO, the very first instance that a team is caught playing over the cap, they should get whatever penalty that is (your top OA goalie loses one game for the maximum GP on first offence, second offense you sit a highly paid player, whatever the rules say) for their very next game, unless the GM can prove the cap was miscalculated before their next game (or maybe two games). That way every GM is responsible for keeping track, not just Tim Gaw. Even in emergencies, Adam has set ways where you can get under the cap immediately (chuck a player into the AHL for the one week allowance until you get your shit together), so nobody should have any excuse for being over the cap, ever.

- It would be a lot easier to get rid of pro-rated salaries all together, and if we wanted to do this for simplicity, I could probably add another restriction to our lines code that would block attempts to dress a roster with > $61.5M. However, taking out pro-rated salaries takes away an aspect of the game for teams saving up space for a rental, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend this option.

Calgary.Flames · Post by **Calgary.Flames** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:38 pm

My vote goes for trade deadline pro-ration only.
Simplifies this thing and favors activity around that time of year.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:49 pm

I can't really change anything now for the teams that have made transactions with the current rules in mind. We'll have to fix all of this over the summer.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:53 pm

It doesn't matter much either way to me (at least not this season) but for the sake of simplicity I'm on board with Julien's idea.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:12 pm

Parker wrote:It doesn't matter much either way to me (at least not this season) but for the sake of simplicity I'm on board with Julien's idea.

I figured full-season pro-ration automation would be easier than it is. Mostly because I thought it could be incorporated into the site, but that would have created too much work for people I don't expect to do that kind of thing for me. So, yes, it would up being a mess. And that's entirely on me.

Post by **SharksGM** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:05 pm

You could try using the program I linked that does all of the calculations for you.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:38 pm

SharksGM wrote:You could try using the program I linked that does all of the calculations for you.

The one in the FTP in the files folder?

Montreal Canadiens · Post by **Montreal Canadiens** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:56 pm

yeah, that was my suggestion as well, start pro-ration after january (or at deadline) and go back to the percentages instead of days played / days remaining.

I agree with Quinn, as a GM, you should know if your team is over the cap or not. I, personally, having a running excel sheet with my team's payroll on it.

(before anyone brings up old news - yes i know i was over the cap last year and since then started the sheet)

How long has TB been over the cap?

BOS/CGY at $55M/$56M is impressive.

Post by **SharksGM** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:23 am

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:
SharksGM wrote:You could try using the program I linked that does all of the calculations for you.
The one in the FTP in the files folder?

Yeah, that. I guess I should give it a better name than 'filereader'.

I actually had to fix a few things with it and need to update it, but I lost the FTP username/password after a reinstall. If you can send me those again I'll update the file.

After testing it now it does what it's supposed to do - track and update salaries on a regular basis. But you still need to keep track of LTIR/penalties regularly, and if you want to go back and do it starting from the beginning of the season (which is possible if you have the old saves) you'd need to keep those LTIR/penalties, er, backdated I guess.