We Need To Talk...

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:02 pm

Alright guys. The time has come for us to have a full forum discussion. There are some things going on that I am disappointed in, some other things that probably need to be addressed, and I'm sure some of you want to voice your opinions.

First off, I'm never going to allow a trade like the VAN/STL one that is currently posted. While, by definition, we are a "fantasy" hockey league, everything we do is based on realism. I don't make the real life draft class or replicate the NHL schedule for fun. Or because I want to neglect my fiance. Or because I have no life. I make it because this is the niche I wanted to create for us in the EHM world. The Rulebook that I put together with varying help from past and current Committee members is not just some bullshit document to make us look important. It was created with a lot of thought, time, and effort in order to fix the shortcomings of EHM and do whatever I could to make this league as much like real life as possible.

Trades like that completely contradictory what is essentially our mission statement. I understand that the frequency of trades in EHEC is nothing like the frequency of real life trades. There's a discernible difference between that and absurd blockbuster deals that would never happen. Like I said in the thread, one for one type deals of Kopitar for Crosby, Malkin for Iginla, those are at least reasonable. It's not a matter of volume. It's a matter of plausibility.

Second, the discussion of repeatedly trading the same players is still being discussed. Some good ideas have been proposed by my exploratory committee assigned to evaluate both the value of draft picks and how to handle players who must overdevelop to reach their full value. I will continue to work with these respected members of the league to find solutions that benefit the league.

Third, as you all know, hit & grind has been limited, but there have been rumblings about the (over)use of the neutral zone trap tactic. I have been mulling over potential rule changes, but any suggestion would be voted upon by the league. There is an unrealistic notion to guys who are 80+ OF being part of a trap line. I understand that. Any vote would be done with the understanding that a lot of teams have built defensive teams and I would hate to undermine that.

Fourth, I'm wondering if a little bit of boredom is starting to set in with the league. I was fearful that this would begin happening as GMs got content with their teams. I just want reassurance from the GMs that they are still fully on board and look forward to checking in on EHEC every day. I'm sure my comment about not having fun running EHEC raised concerns for all of you. I just want to reassure all of you that I never have any intention of bailing on the hard work that all of us have put into making the league what it is. Even on my worst day as a Commissioner, I'm still thankful that I have a good group of support here.

Fifth, now is probably a good time to remind GMs about some things. The max games played for a goaltender is 67. That's games played, not just games started. Be aware of that. If you remember, I looked back last season at goaltenders who played more than 67 games and it really was a small percentage of the league, so we implemented our own rule because goaltenders do not fatigue in EHM the way they do in real life. Try to be aware of your salary cap. You can check it by going to: http://www.ehechockey.com/gmcp/payrolldetails_COL.php and where COL is, insert any team abbreviation to see their payroll.

If any GMs want to express concerns or bring up suggestions, things to discuss, whatever, please do it here.

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:20 pm

Re: VAN/STL deals (and a slew of trades I have a history of being involved in) developing a system that involves a maximum amount of salary involved in a trade proportionate to the amount of time as GM of your respective teams. Of the top of my head......

Code: Select all

less then 30 days  =     $3m
30 days            =     $5m
90 days            =     $10m
180 days           =     $15m
1 year             =     no cap

This doesn't exactly prevent trades like overvalued prospects being traded for picks, but if its a deal involving anyone with a NHL contract (especially with new ELC's) the GM would have to wait at least a month before making it. Hopefully all new GMs use the information posted in threads or gamefiles to educate themselves, or get better offers from GMs that are active but not here on a daily basis. Preventing GMs from immediately making trades isn't a attractive feature for prospective GMs, this allows them to move minor parts and show that their here long term before trading away huge assets (i.e best goalie in league).

As I said in the TB/NJ trade, I fully support any changes made to trading criteria to ensure a more realistic environment. However, I think disciplining or rejecting trades that are legitimate value wise before the new criteria is put in place is improper. I also think preventing high skilled players from NZT'ing is also unrealistic, I witnessed Stamkos sit in the neutral zone while Pronger dicked around with the puck during the infamous PHI/TB NHL game. If Sir Steven can nit it up, anyone can imo.

Not bored at all with EHEC, would be super fucking bored without.

Montreal Canadiens · Post by **Montreal Canadiens** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:53 pm

On point 3. Yes it is ridiculous, and unfortunately I have to single out the Rangers again, but 3 trap lines is absurd. Last I checked in the save-file (which was a couple days ago), the Rangers allowed a league-low 31 goals while every other team was 40+. Not to put a dig on them, but I think the 3 NZT lines is the only reason for that. In my opinion, the Rangers aren't the best team attribute wise.

I'll be up front about it, I was one of the people that brought this crazy use of NZT up to Adam. I didn't just mention the Rangers, I mean, I have used Kostitsyn and Hemsky on a NZT strategy, but not because I wanted to, because I had to match what every other team is doing. I'd be certainly happy throwing them out there for passing plays instead of Neutral Zone trap, because that is the reason I acquired offensive players like Savard and Hemsky, is to have them go put up points, not go head to head in a trap match vs. the other teams top guys.

Another prime example is JVR, Cody Hodgson, and Jarome Iginla on neutral zone trap. The latter 2 are two of the best forwards in this file, and on NZT makes them even more superior (and unrealistic).

Couple more great examples of unrealistic star players trapping as a cohesive unit:

Henrik Zetterberg - Joe Pavelski - Brian Gionta
Jakub Voracek - Derrick Brassard - Rick Nash
Simon Gagne - Patrick Marleau - Artem Anisimov
David Clarkson - Steven Stamkos - Dana Tyrell*
Andrei Kostitsyn - Marc Savard - Ales Hemsky (at one point, where I actually pulled off a 3 W streak using NZT)

*The one exception to this is the Tampa Bay line where there is only 1 star player, but still has NZT on their top line, and let's be honest, they wouldn't be linemates if NZT wasn't allowed for a top line strategy.

I went through every team's lines the other day and the only teams to be using an offensive strategy (not NZT or H&G) with their best offensive players were the Los Angeles Kings, San Jose Sharks, Colorado Avalanche, New Jersey Devils, Carolina Hurricanes, and St. Louis Blues. This was the other day, so things can be different now (IE people swap strategies, etc), but at that current day that I did the search, came up with 6 teams out of 30. May have missed one or two, so maybe you're looking at, at the most, 25 % of the league using PP with their top players. (I went with 8 teams going with PP to make it an easy number).

How many teams in the real NHL have their top players trapping? Maybe two? Nashville and New Jersey? The answer is far from 20 +.

This could be even uglier come playoff time as well.

I proposed a couple of rule changes, one was just simply removing the ability to be allowed to use NZT on your top line and also limiting the amount of NZT you can use to 80 or 90 seconds. With us being allowed 2 H & G lines, and 2 NZT lines, that's very unrealistic and over dominating in EHM. With removing it from being able to be used on your top line, we would basically have the majority of the league using PP/D&C - H&G - H&G - NZT for their line strategies, which is completely realistic if you think about what NHL teams throw out their for line combos. Usually the have a shut down line, a banger line, and 2 lines that are their "top 6" that are there to score.

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:39 pm

I strongly disagree with what MTL is saying. Me using different players on my top line if NZT was banned from 1st lines? I’m unsure of who you are referring to... David Clarkson is my best LW and Dana Tyrell is my best RW. Regardless of whether NZT was limited, that would be my top line (unless HNG was allowed again). Why are you penalizing GMs who stress a good two-way game from all players (forwards included) when building a roster? Does it have anything to do with the fact half your wingers don’t possess a good enough POS/CHK to make NZT a smart strategy choice?

Going after teams who had the knowledge re: EHM strategies and built teams around strategies they believed to be dominant (when a proper team is constructed) is called competing imo.....Afaik their was always a counter tactic (except for HNG) so if you build your team with how you want to play and matchup in mind, you should have no complaints. Wanting teams to get into wild scoring chance slugfest’s because you have a one-way offense is called being a nit.

Teams trap, teams play physical. Every Boston line in the NHL is on HNG, or at least three. That works for them, they brought in players who they believed would be willing to play a physically tough role. Imagine the NHL telling Boston, “ok half your line can’t hit anymore, just pass the puck” Cam Neely would KTFO you. The only rule I would personally be interested in is creating a “max tactic” rule, you can only use a tactic twice in your lineup. No shift length maximums.

Montreal Canadiens · Post by **Montreal Canadiens** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:08 pm

Well your argument is completely false since I won 3 games in a row using NZT with my club, beating quality teams, so my team can trap with the best of them. Take a look at the Rangers roster and tell me he has "better trapping" forwards than me. I built my team with some scorers (Kostitsyn, Savard, Hemsky, Kuznetsov) hitters (Chipchura, Lapierre) and Nokelainen, Goc, Gagner, Madden can all play a trap role.

Kariya & Setoguchi are both in the middle of being an offensive monster and being able to play the trap but putting them in a NZT role just boosts their defensive play. I believe they both have played NZT thus far this season and don't have as many points as they would if they played PP but both are + forwards, so they obviously are barely getting scored on.

Perhaps do some more research into my team before claiming false things.

Also David Clarkson - Steven Stamkos - Dana Tyrell on passing plays would be far less effective than them being NZT.

NZT is a dominate strategy, doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:36 pm

just make everyone play run n gun like the fastsims do it

TorontoGM · Post by **TorontoGM** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:46 pm

Ya NZT is reallllllly helping my team.

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:53 pm

Montreal Canadiens wrote:Well your argument is completely false since I won 3 games in a row using NZT with my club, beating quality teams, so my team can trap with the best of them. Take a look at the Rangers roster and tell me he has "better trapping" forwards than me. I built my team with some scorers (Kostitsyn, Savard, Hemsky, Kuznetsov) hitters (Chipchura, Lapierre) and Nokelainen, Goc, Gagner, Madden can all play a trap role.

Kariya & Setoguchi are both in the middle of being an offensive monster and being able to play the trap but putting them in a NZT role just boosts their defensive play. I believe they both have played NZT thus far this season and don't have as many points as they would if they played PP but both are + forwards, so they obviously are barely getting scored on.

So you might as well just delete your post, or do some more research into my team.

Also David Clarkson - Steven Stamkos - Dana Tyrell on passing plays would be far less effective than them being NZT.

NZT is a dominate strategy, doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

So to be clear, your in favor of limiting a strategy your team has had success with?

Kuznetsov, Kariya, Savard and Setoguchi all have below average defensive games, thats 50% of your current wingers. Can I please see your evidence of NZT being an dominant strategy? Of course NYR are going to be league leaders in GA, he's playing defensive more then anybody else. I led the league in GA by around 60 last year, I was trapping 2/4 lines. The same logic could be applied theoretically if a team was using RNG a lot and leading the league in goals. Would you then regulate RNG if that team leads the league in GF?

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:18 pm

I'm just trying to run some sort of democracy. Only reason I brought it up. If it warranted a vote to amend the rulebook, you guys would have told me.

Montreal Canadiens · Post by **Montreal Canadiens** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:19 pm

RNG is far less dominate than NZT, come on now, we're comparing apples to oranges. RNG fails more times than it succeeds.

4 forwards out of 12 you mean have average defensive games.....so does the Rangers...so do the Penguins, as I'm sure every "top" team would. Sorry I'm not stacked top to bottom. Also Kuznetsov is still developing.

Yes I'm in favour of limiting NZT because it's not realistic and I didn't trade Hemsky to put him in a NZT role. Nor did I trade for Savard to have him in a NZT role and also I don't think PIT acquired JVR to put him on his top trappling line...when oh yeah he has a "below average" defensive trapping game.

NYR shouldn't be the league leader in GA, look at all his wingers/forwards, are they not "below average" defensively?

Let's compare.

New York Rangers:

Vaclav Prospal - 65 DEF
Simon Gagne - 70 DEF
Patrick Marleau - 70 DEF
Artem Anisimov - 70 DEF
Jason Arnott - 75 DEF
Wannstrom - 66 DEF

Montreal Canadiens:

Marc Savard: 64 DEF
Andrei Kostitsyn: 76 DEF
Ales Hemsky: 73 DEF
Sam Gagner: 77 DEF
Evgeni Kuznetsov: 67 DEF (and going up)
Paul Kariya: 65 DEF

So, where exactly is my deficient forwards? Average of 70.33 DEF among my forwards. Rangers got an average of 69.33, so where is your argument coming from? They clearly don't have better defensive forwards in their top 6 than me. If you wanted to go further down into the top 9:

New York Rangers:

Chris Higgins: 72 DEF
Trent Hunter: 75 DEF
Mikael Salmivirta: 73 DEF

Montreal Canadiens:

Max Lapierre: 81 DEF
Kyle Chipchura: 77 DEF
John Madden: 78 DEF

For the top 9, Rangers have an average defense of 70.66, Montreal Canadiens have an average of 73.11.

Clarify for me where my defiency is?

To be clear, you are saying NZT is not a dominate strategy and we should have no limitations on it? Why?

I'm shocked you need evidence to support NZT as a domiante strategy to be honest. It's clearly happening around the league.........

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:30 pm

DEF combines HIT, HIT matters very little imo when NZT. Idc enough to go through all the work you did, but I would guess NYR have better CHK+POS/2 average then you. If I'm wrong, I still don't see how a team trapping 3/4 lines leading the league in GA is a proof beyond a reasonable doubt that NZT should be considered a dominant strategy.

GM Office Q · Post by **GM Office Q** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:43 pm

This is probably a good thread to apologize for being 12 hours late on the sim yesterday. With the end of the term at school I only really had 2 options: 1:00 PM (8 hours early) or the next morning. Based on the number of people uploading lines (which was almost everybody - thanks!), good thing I waited. Sorry boys.

I rarely reject any trades, but I agree with Adam on this one. Nothing against either of these GMs at all as it is completely within the rules, but this reminds me of a trade you'd see in a shitty startup league that shuts down after a month. The Malkin trade and Crosby for Kopitar trades that were mentioned, although farfetched, definitely have a more realistic flavor to them.

I also agree, unless the player's name is Mike Sillinger, I think there should be a cap on how many times a player is traded in one season.

I check EHEC multiple times per day, and even if I'm out partying I'll still check for the score of my team's game (or at least text Tim) on my phone. Definitely no boredom with me, especially now that I'm at least contending for the 8th spot in the west after two years of suckage.

Montreal Canadiens wrote:I went through every team's lines the other day and the only teams to be using an offensive strategy (not NZT or H&G) with their best offensive players were the Los Angeles Kings, San Jose Sharks, Colorado Avalanche, New Jersey Devils, Carolina Hurricanes, and St. Louis Blues.

Post by **SharksGM** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:22 am

Less dickwaving about how your team is better than the Rangers even when they're not and more useful commentary please.

I don't really see a huge problem with NZT, but it does seem clear that the offensive tactics (R&G and D&C particularly) just aren't that effective, leaving PP as the only other decent option. It's too bad that EHM doesn't really have a cycle down low tactic... that's kind of what D&C is supposed to lead to but it's not clear that it actually leads to cycling.

Other than that, I think we had some good arguments about GM/player of the month back in the day and there's space for it on the front page, so how about getting that going again? Never mind voting for it, just get one guy to pick and then we can have 30 post flamefests about how bad the choices were.

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:54 am

I fully support any changes made to trading criteria to ensure a more realistic environment. However, I think disciplining or rejecting trades that are legitimate value wise before the new criteria is put in place is improper. I also think preventing high skilled players from NZT'ing is also unrealistic, I witnessed Stamkos sit in the neutral zone while Pronger dicked around with the puck during the infamous PHI/TB NHL game. If Sir Steven can nit it up, anyone can imo.

THIS.

My suggestion for trap lines: Have the same rule as H&G! 50sec max, 70 total. Not allowed on 1st line.

jamesredwings · Post by **jamesredwings** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:15 pm

From a guy that have seen leagues go down over and over again (baseball mogul leagues, old front page sport leagues, etc). It starts with little things like the website front page being the same forever (Ehechockey.com has been on the Washington story of the cupboard being bare for months), GM of the month voting is not happening anymore, salary cap listing is not up to date, everyday the "not bad" pics show up. I understand it is lots of work though but I am just stating facts.

As far as realism, well it's hard with this really bad software to imitate real life but there is nothing else out there so we need to cope. When I see my line of Perry, Richards and Backstrom barely put up a shot and lose to Minnesota (43 shots to 7 or something like that), it is very frustrating but this is not real life. The goal of every software game is to beat the programming. Once you find the way, you just move on to the next game.

I use two H&G lines but it has done F%?@! for me. Now I need to move to NZT or else change the rule if you do not like it.

I agree with the trade going through a committee to protect the league and would be ok if you vetoed the StL Van trade (if you decide it is one sided). Who wouldn't give up Gaborik to get the Sedins and Luongo?

The part that is real: it gets hard to trade with a salary cap like in the real NHL and if you look closely, the same guys get traded also in the real NHL because of that.

My 2 cents (that's all it's worth anyways...)

Commish Bub(NYR) · Post by **Commish Bub(NYR)** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:35 pm

I dunno what to say to you, Brad. True, your forwards do have better DEF ratings than mine across the board, even with HI taken out. But if you want to argue straight numbers....go to the lines tab and see that my total team DEF rating is higher than yours; and whereas Price v. Lundqvist looks even ratings-wise, Lundqvist has a CON 20 pts higher; speaking of CON, I haven't checked each player's numbers, but right now you have more players at "normal" or lower morale than I do. I think CON matters greatly in overall team performance, regardless of whatever killer tactic you're using.

Finally, I think everyone agrees that EHM tends to balance things out over a whole season. I don't think there's any way in hell I'll maintain this low GAA over 82 games. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I can't see it happening.

Finally finally, four of the six teams you mentioned as using offensive tactics on their top line are in the top half of the league, and a fifth (COL) is contending. NJ is, well, NJ.

Finally finally finally, if Adam decides or the league votes to change line tactics to require an "offensive" tactic for at least one line, I won't bitch and moan about it. I'll just do it.

Okay, last thing really: Quinn, no sweat about the late sim. JUST DON'T DO IT AGAIN

. And I do agree that we should bring back GM of the month, etc.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:54 pm

jamesredwings wrote:everyday the "not bad" pics show up.

Dude. Not everyone can put the same amount of time in this league. Some of us are students in VERY tough programs. Some are working 2-3 jobs. I have every right to show up on these boards and post once a month. The fact that I'm sending lines in for every game and posting stupid image macros despite midterms, projects, assignments and teaching shit to deal with shows how much I care about this league.

Writing this stuff takes time. If you're upset about it, perhaps you should be our official EHEC beat reporter guy.

Femur · Post by **Femur** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:10 pm

NZT: i have seen real NHL teams trap the whole game. it happens less than it used to in the real NHL, but it is not unrealistic to have coaches take the proverbial air out of the ball...some of these guys even make their stars work the system to their detriment. with only four generic tactics to choose from, you are never gonna have total realism because coaches are always coming up with new things and we can't do that. i think we should not change a rule

LINES in GENERAL: the one tiny downside to this new website is seeing an opponent's tactics before the game. this massively favors the west coasters and late nighters (seemingly everyone but me), and hurts those of us with an early bedtime. simply stated, i don't usually have free time to work the tactics in the afternoons and evenings, thus i show my cards early in the day and the opponent can scheme against me easily. i don't even remember being totally screwed by this yet (although i was gonna change into a trap late night, but someone simmed early....arrghhh!), but i can really see myself having to stay up waaayyy too late during the more important times of the year to make a game of this. not sure what can be done, but for now i pretty much play standard tactics and hope for the best.

TRADES: i have no opinion.

ACTIVITY LEVEL: seems fine to me....live and let live

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:16 pm

CapsGM wrote:
jamesredwings wrote:everyday the "not bad" pics show up.
Dude. Not everyone can put the same amount of time in this league. Some of us are students in VERY tough programs. Some are working 2-3 jobs. I have every right to show up on these boards and post once a month. The fact that I'm sending lines in for every game and posting stupid image macros despite midterms, projects, assignments and teaching shit to deal with shows how much I care about this league.

Writing this stuff takes time. If you're upset about it, perhaps you should be our official EHEC beat reporter guy.

Montreal Canadiens · Post by **Montreal Canadiens** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:54 pm

Taking NZT off the 1st line and some sort of line limit seems the easiest to me.

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:19 pm

jamesredwings wrote:everyday the "not bad" pics show up.

GM Office Q · Post by **GM Office Q** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:36 pm

jamesredwings wrote:From a guy that have seen leagues go down over and over again (baseball mogul leagues, old front page sport leagues, etc). It starts with little things like the website front page being the same forever (Ehechockey.com has been on the Washington story of the cupboard being bare for months)

This one's on me. I've been meaning to write a tutorial for Adam on how to update the website, but I've had literally no time to do it yet.

jamesredwings wrote:GM of the month voting is not happening anymore

You can always volunteer, you know.

jamesredwings wrote:everyday the "not bad" pics show up.

Calgary.Flames · Post by **Calgary.Flames** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:44 pm

That was a good read.
I will not say much since I am kinda still learning and getting to know everyone, but I do wanna say that this is by far the most entertaining league i have ever been involved in.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:07 pm

Tampa Bay GM wrote:
CapsGM wrote:
jamesredwings wrote:everyday the "not bad" pics show up.
Dude. Not everyone can put the same amount of time in this league. Some of us are students in VERY tough programs. Some are working 2-3 jobs. I have every right to show up on these boards and post once a month. The fact that I'm sending lines in for every game and posting stupid image macros despite midterms, projects, assignments and teaching shit to deal with shows how much I care about this league.

Writing this stuff takes time. If you're upset about it, perhaps you should be our official EHEC beat reporter guy.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:08 pm

I'll address what has been said in this thread early tomorrow.

Post by **SharksGM** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:46 pm

Just fyi, I nominate myself as GM of the month for October. Depending on how my game tomorrow goes, Hugo can have November.

Kings GM · Post by **Kings GM** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:12 pm

I think NZT shouldn't be allowed on the top 2 lines and a max of time like Hit and Grind.

jamesredwings · Post by **jamesredwings** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:05 am

Writing this stuff takes time. If you're upset about it, perhaps you should be our official EHEC beat reporter guy.

Completely agree with you Caps GM (although you should have fired Boudreau a logn time ago). Why don't you just copy when somebody posts team news? Doesn`t have to be your responsibility all the time.

Good luck with those yucky mid terms!

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:07 pm

So, this thread has an equal balance between dick-waving and decent discussion.

Let's start with the NZT argument. My proposal would have been to limit NZT to "defensive lines". What I mean is that if you take the average OF of the three forwards, and it is say, 75 or above, then that line cannot play NZT. There are two problems with this theory. The first is that a team could just have two 80 OF forwards and then a 64 OF forward to fall under the criteria. It's also very hard to enforce and takes too much time for the nightly simmers. It's bad enough trying to keep tabs on everybody with the hit & grind rule. I was hoping Quinn could put invalid line coding into the GMCP, but I don't know if that's possible. There could be some code like "If tactic (whatever number H&G is) value = >50, error message 'Your lines are invalid.'" Or something.

No first line is also an option, though I'm not totally sure the effect it would have. Overall, I see some who wouldn't mind restrictions, others who don't think we need them. If I come up with a proposal, we'll have a vote on it.

As for the front page, Quinn is right. It is his fault. I've asked a few times for a tutorial for updating the website. Whenever he gets around to it, I'll be happy to update it. I realize he's busy and there's nothing I can do about that. Would GM voting and a new front page story seriously increase activity, though? When Bern does the year-end awards, barely a third of the league votes on them.

Femur brings up an excellent point about the lines. It's something I never considered, but it definitely does allow teams to look and matchup with their opponent. The lineup page may need to be taken down and just leave the upload section for lines.

For salary cap listings, they are all up-to-date, James. Go to this link: http://www.ehechockey.com/gmcp/payrolldetails_COL.php and then change the team abbreviation. For example yours would be: http://www.ehechockey.com/gmcp/payrolldetails_DET.php

While I'm on the cap subject, Montreal, Colorado, Dallas, and Boston are all over the cap right now. I'm not sure if buyouts were taken into account when Tommy checked them yesterday or not.

Another option to adding a little excitement to the file would be to move the scoring slider up. Possibly move the injury slider down. There seems to be an increased number of long-term injuries this season. I don't know what help moving the scoring slider up would do as NZT would probably negate that anyway.

As for Justin's idea regarding maximum salary in a trade and period of time in the league, it's an interesting concept and one I may choose to look at further.

It looks like the consensus opinion from my exploratory committee on re-trading of players in a short time period is to allow CON drops for those players. It alters their value and increases the risk for the acquiring team. It also makes it harder to complete a trade for these players. I like this idea and I think it's definitely one that will be implemented.

What I did with that committee was try to evaluate the value of a draft pick and the value of a player who needs to overdevelop to reach his full potential. What we determined is that the system we have seems to be working fine and that overdevelopment occurs so frequently that it should not have any impact on the player's value. With draft picks, we will operate under the notion that the pick is already a fully developed player and gauge the value based on previous drafts. There is really no way for a player to bust in EHM, except an incredibly low weight or something like that. So, with almost every draft pick being a certainty, we will just assume a 1st round pick is a top six/top four player and continue to keep in mind boosters and whatnot for the 2nd/3rd rounds.

Furthermore, instead of a discussion on value, trades like the STL/VAN deal won't be allowed. Even if they are even value, that's not what EHEC is about and like Quinn said, it looks like a trade that would be completed in the first month of a league destined to fail. At that point, why not just make Mike and Steve completely switch teams? That's essentially what's happening in the deal.

I have to agree with James on the pics. It's getting redundant. You don't have to post a big long response to sim results, but I'm really tired of seeing Obama and other internet memes. At least change it up and get creative.

GM Office Q · Post by **GM Office Q** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:15 pm

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:I was hoping Quinn could put invalid line coding into the GMCP, but I don't know if that's possible. There could be some code like "If tactic (whatever number H&G is) value = >50, error message 'Your lines are invalid.'" Or something.

I suspect I will be able to do this.

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:As for the front page, Quinn is right. It is his fault. I've asked a few times for a tutorial for updating the website. Whenever he gets around to it, I'll be happy to update it.

Looking at my schedule I won't have enough time for any non-academic projects like this until after December 19. That said, after December 19 my courseload basically drops in half until I graduate, including absolutely nothing between December 19 and January 6. I'll also try to get the invalid lines option done in this time period.

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:Femur brings up an excellent point about the lines. It's something I never considered, but it definitely does allow teams to look and matchup with their opponent. The lineup page may need to be taken down and just leave the upload section for lines.

Would it be worth keeping the lineups but hiding the strategies and times for each set of lines? Obviously we'd still be able to see who's doing what by looking at their lines in EHM, but for game day this would be impossible and encourage more people to change up the lines.

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:While I'm on the cap subject, Montreal, Colorado, Dallas, and Boston are all over the cap right now. I'm not sure if buyouts were taken into account when Tommy checked them yesterday or not.

The salary cap numbers I purposely made only available for you to see on your own team as they do not include buyouts or injuries and should only be used to help estimate your salary cap. With my team, Ryan O'Reilly who is out for the season is putting me over the cap.

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:Another option to adding a little excitement to the file would be to move the scoring slider up. Possibly move the injury slider down. There seems to be an increased number of long-term injuries this season. I don't know what help moving the scoring slider up would do as NZT would probably negate that anyway.

Agreed with both.

Commissioner (CBJ) wrote:I have to agree with James on the pics. It's getting redundant. You don't have to post a big long response to sim results, but I'm really tired of seeing Obama and other internet memes. At least change it up and get creative.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:16 pm

In eNHL, there was a supplementary H&G tactic rule: in addition to the usual icetime limits they also mandated that players have a minimum of something like 140 combined HT and Str, so GM's couldn't put a bunch of weakass soft players on a H&G line. I questioned the value of this rule because I was under the impression that type of player wouldn't be very effective under a H&G strategy anyway, but it did add realism to the league; in real life no GM would have a line of say Kariya/Gionta/Boedker playing a hitting strategy. Anyhoo, my point is that a rule similar to this might work for limiting unrealistic use of NZT. I personally have no problem with a GM using NZT on any lines, as long as the players aren't obviously unsuited to that strategy. I don't care if TB wants a guy like Seguin to trap; he's competent enough defensively that it's not completely outlandish. Whether or not Seguin himself would be happy playing for a team that made him trap is a whole nother story. Stamkos on the other hand I'm not so convinced about because while he's not exactly weak defensively, he's quite obviously an offense-first player, with an OF 17 points higher than his DF. Maybe a minimum 150 combined CH and PO requirement for a player to be on an NZT line, or something similar? Maybe a GM could apply for an exemption if his team is literally so fucking weak that no other strategy makes any sense, despite the fact that his players don't meet the criteria.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:29 pm

While I agree with every sentiment in your post, Parker, my issue is with enforcement. If I catch a flaw in the lines, there's either not enough time for the GM to respond and fix them or I have to make changes to the way that a GM is running his team. I realize that if there are lines that violate rules, I have the right to change what I need to.

I just don't really want to get into the practice of doing that.

To Quinn, hiding the tactics seems like it could help, though teams can probably guess what the tactics are based on who's on the line.

For the salary cap thing, I don't think Tommy calculated for LTIR Injury Exemptions. It sounded weird that you were over. I'm not surprised Boston's over. Montreal also has a couple LTIR injuries that should have him under. Not sure on Dallas. I'll have to check that one.

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:06 pm

jamesredwings wrote:Completely agree with you Caps GM (although you should have fired Boudreau a logn time ago).

I realized he was inadequate well before the NHL Caps did and demoted him to assistant coach at the start of the season.

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:16 pm

Keep it simpleeeeeeeeeeeeeee. NZT with same limitations as H&G. Implemented today! Let's go!

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:38 pm

Penguin wrote:Keep it simpleeeeeeeeeeeeeee. NZT with same limitations as H&G. Implemented today! Let's go!

TorontoGM · Post by **TorontoGM** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:51 pm

That's bullshit, if you ban memes then you ban the only reason sim results are remotely interesting to read.

Post by **SharksGM** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:06 pm

Why don't you just save those 5 images macros and look at them whenever you want? That way you won't have to be bothered to read the sim results at all since apparently all they're good for is "That's turrible!" and "Not Bad".

TorontoGM · Post by **TorontoGM** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:15 pm

SharksGM wrote:Why don't you just save those 5 images macros and look at them whenever you want? That way you won't have to be bothered to read the sim results at all since apparently all they're good for is "That's turrible!" and "Not Bad".

It's not like those two are the only ones being posted....I just think it's a hell of a lot more entertaining than the constant bitching about NZT.

Montreal Canadiens · Post by **Montreal Canadiens** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:20 pm

lol I like that last one, Justin. I laughed the first time at Obama not bad, now it's just getting oldddddd. It's like a "your mom" joke.

I'm in agreement with Bern. Same rules as H&G and be done with it. Easier for GM's to remember, easier to police.

Also, I noticed this as well (when I was doing my research about NZT) that you can see every team's lines and for the people that have the time to do line combo's over and over and over they will eventually find a combo that wins.

For people like me and Femur and I'm assuming a ton others that don't have time for that, we're kind of on the short end of the stick. Come playoff time it might be detrimental.

Showing people's lines was a great idea, but I think it should be taken down.

And yes, I'm under the cap if you take into the fact my long term injuries.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:53 pm

Montreal Canadiens wrote:And yes, I'm under the cap if you take into the fact my long term injuries.

No. You're over.

You can exceed the 58M cap by the amount of your LTIR players.

Nemeth: 525,000
Chipchura: 1,150,000

Total: 1,675,000

Your cap number currently: $59,906,250
Your max cap is $59,675,000.

You're over the cap by $231,250.

Dallas is over the cap by $482,975.

Montreal Canadiens · Post by **Montreal Canadiens** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:04 pm

Where are you getting $59,906,250?

Says in the other thread, $58,231,250.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:06 pm

Montreal Canadiens wrote:Where are you getting $59,906,250?

Says in the other thread, $58,231,250.

http://www.ehechockey.com/gmcp/payrolldetails_MTL.php

Tommy took out the injury exemptions to Chipchura and Nemeth. That brings it to $58,231,250.

Montreal Canadiens · Post by **Montreal Canadiens** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:10 pm

I just added it up myself and got:

$58,856,250

(I used GM control panel and current payroll to add the figures)

Which includes Nemeth's $525K, Chipchura's $1.15M, and Nattinen's $450K.

If you minus Nemeth's $525K for being LTIR and Chipchura's $1.15M, I'm at $57,181,250.

Well under the cap.

GoJetsGo · Post by **GoJetsGo** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:13 pm

Adam checked and I confirmed, Ryan White was demoted on 11/25. In game he was still on the pro roster, thus the 1,050,000 difference.

Virtual Jarmo · Post by **Virtual Jarmo** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:58 pm

Quinn will be taking a sabbatical from simming.

I will be picking up Monday nights, Tommy will take Friday nights.

GoJetsGo · Post by **GoJetsGo** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:32 am

Quinn, I think you're over, but it's not by much. In the salary update post, the cap number is after all factors were considered. The Pokulok buyout 1M and O'Reilly exemption .9M basically cancel out.

EDIT: Galiardi demotion wasn't factored in the other day. You're good.

GM Office Q · Post by **GM Office Q** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:39 am

Fun fact: Colorado, tied for 16th in the overall standings, has the 4th best offense and the 2nd worst defense in the league. And that's without run and gun!

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:32 pm

Re: next years WJC.

Irl, we had a number of players released by their NHL clubs to play and experience the WJCs. While I recall mentioning this before and it not being recieved positively, it could easily be done in EHM. Currently there would be no incentive for GMs to do so, players develop much quicker in the NHL/AHL compared to in JNR. However I would think a LE boost to medal winning non game gen players (+3 for gold, +2 for silver and +1 bronze) would provide enough allure without compromising the integrity of the league or the LE category.

Legends are made in the WJCs, I think this would add to the interest of them (in turn adding interest to EHEC) and adds realism rather then subtracting from it.

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:42 pm

I like the idea of a LE boost, but I'd prefer it not be limited to medal winners. A team might have decent prospects from Latvia, Germany, or Switzerland who obviously don't have a hope in hell of even getting to the medal round, but in real life those players would be the go-to guys on their respective teams and would probably (in real life) gain leadership ability from that alone. On the other hand, a Canadian or Russian backup goalie probably wouldn't do fuck-all in the tournament, but they get a medal and a leadership bosot because they had a good view from the bench?

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:53 pm

That's a good idea. Like Parker, I agree that non-medalists still get tons of experience from that tournament, so maybe top scorer from each team could also get a +1 LE boost.

I was talking to Adam about a Junior System a while ago. If you decide to keep your player in the Juniors for the year instead of calling him up to the AHL right away, he gets more LE, more CON, etc. But, you could only have 3 declared Juniors eligible, like 3 underagers on the farm.