Line Tactics

Commish Bub(NYR) · Post by **Commish Bub(NYR)** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:45 pm

Proposed:

1. Max 2 H&G and/or NZT lines, with a max total of 80 secs combined

2. Min 30-second first line shift, whatever the tactic

3. No spanking

Constructive criticisms welcome; bitchiness and crankiness will result in the Rangers winning the Cup.

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:50 pm

Whatever Bub says, I vote for.

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:19 am

I am good with this.....

flyergp21 · Post by **flyergp21** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:56 am

NO, please NO!!!!

Again, 80 sec H and G + 30 sec 1st line + 10 sec line = 80/120

So 2/3 can be allowed to Hit and Grind thats what we need to avoid. PLEASE RECONSIDER THIS!

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:22 am

flyergp21 wrote:NO, please NO!!!!

Again, 80 sec H and G + 30 sec 1st line + 10 sec line = 80/120

So 2/3 can be allowed to Hit and Grind thats what we need to avoid. PLEASE RECONSIDER THIS!

If you have 4 lines.....and 2 of them COULD be HAG lines....how the hell can 2/3 of your lines be HAG? You could only have 1/2 not 2/3.......

So if you had 80 secs of HAG time.....the other 2 lines could easily be alot more then the 80 secs....
Example:
Line 1..........70 passing
Line 2 .........60 HAG
Line 3 .........50 D&C
Line 4 .........20 HAG

I dont see what the problem is....A HAG line can always be beaten anyways. You just have to figure out a way of doing it.

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:36 am

What I think PHI is getting at is this: With Bub's current proposal a GM could have a lineup that resembles:

Code: Select all

LINE 1 [70s] [HNG]
LINE 2 [10s] [HNG]
LINE 3 [10s] [x]
LINE 4 [10s] [x]

or

Code: Select all

LINE 1 [60s] [HNG]
LINE 2 [20s] [HNG]
LINE 3 [10s] [x]
LINE 4 [10s] [x]

Even if we were to still include the "Max 50s HNG/NZT" rule, a lineup could still look like this:

Code: Select all

LINE 1 [50s] [HNG]
LINE 2 [30s] [HNG]
LINE 3 [10s] [x]
LINE 4 [10s] [x]

If I was to change anything, I would say no HNG/NZT on the 1st but keep the rest of Bub's proposal.

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:42 am

But the HAG/NZT tactic can not be used for 1st line at all...that is already in the rules

Buffalo LEPS · Post by **Buffalo LEPS** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:06 am

To me it's not good enough :

1- Why 80 sec max H&G / NZT.... wasn't 70 sec enough ?

2- H&G can't be on first line...

3- A first line must played AT LEAST 40 sec, if not more. Is it normal to have a 1st line play 30 sec and a second line 60 ?

4- Like DG Philly said, the goal is to prevent the team to play too much of a H&G. With that proposal you can play 80 out of 100 (line 3 and 4 at 10 sec) of H&G (80 % H&G). That is worse than the previous rule to me.

Proposal :

1- H&G et NZT 2 lines 70 sec max
2- H&G can't be on 1st line
3- 1st line got to be higher than 2/3 of any other line
ex : 40-60, 50-70 allowed if you want another line to play more than your 1st line
With that we diminish the 70 (actual ratio) or 80 % H&G (ratio of new proposal by Bub) to 58 % for 40-60 and 50 % for 50-70 (with the two other lines playing 10 sec.)

We could allow 30-50 with a H&G ratio of 64%, which seems a little bit high to me.

THAT'S ALL FOLKS !!!!!!!!!

Buffalo LEPS · Post by **Buffalo LEPS** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:11 am

Just seems like the "cannot plya H&G and NZT on first line" rule wasn't there in Bub's proposal.

Just keep it that way then...

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:11 am

Starting to look complicated. Why don't we keep the rules as is, and add that the 1st line has to play 30 seconds?

Buffalo LEPS · Post by **Buffalo LEPS** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:19 am

It's not that complicated...

If you want let say your 2nd or 3rd line to play more than your first, you've got two option (40-60 or 50-70).

With the "min 30 sec to first line" rule, we could see this :

1st line = 30 sec
2nd line = 70 sec

Doesn't seems too realistic...

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:23 am

Nothing monumental should happen a week away from the season. Using the existing framework is important since that is how GMs have been building their teams this offseason. I'm all for adaptations, but radical change isn't fair.

flyergp21 · Post by **flyergp21** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:35 am

What's monumental about playing less Hit and Grind????????

We need to fix this EHM bug, everyone agrees.

Bring it down to 40-50% of max usage and everybody will be happy.

flyergp21 · Post by **flyergp21** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:40 am

@ Singin the Blues:

I'm always talking about total minutes on the ice.

So if you have 2 lines playing Hit and Grind for a total of 80 seconds, then your so-called 1st line at 30 seconds like Bub suggested, and your other line at 10 seconds, what does it mean?

Yes, 80 seconds out of every 120 of the game is allowed to hit and grind, for a 66.66%.

And worse if the 1st line can be played only 10 seconds also, that would bump the total to 80% like Leps told you.

Either way, that's BAD, really BAD.

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:56 am

Bub said MIN 30 seconds......and i dont know about everyone else.....but my 1st line plays a MIN of at least 60 secs probably more....if you are playing your TOP guys on ur first line for 30 sec shifts......you have a whole different problem right there

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:58 am

flyergp21 wrote:What's monumental about playing less Hit and Grind????????

We need to fix this EHM bug, everyone agrees.

Bring it down to 40-50% of max usage and everybody will be happy.

Everbody WAS happy before it was brought up again........The only thing ppl werent really too happy with was the line times.....and that got shifted over to HAG lines somehow

I wonder who brought it up....
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4772

flyergp21 · Post by **flyergp21** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:06 pm

Singin the BLUES wrote:Bub said MIN 30 seconds......and i dont know about everyone else.....but my 1st line plays a MIN of at least 60 secs probably more....if you are playing your TOP guys on ur first line for 30 sec shifts......you have a whole different problem right there

I'm not actually doing that, I'm saying IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE, some would do it, some have done it...

As for the happiness of the GMs, we should create another poll, I don't think too many of us appreciate the Hitting and Grinding freedom here...

flyergp21 · Post by **flyergp21** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:08 pm

AND I'M PRETTY GLAD I DID.

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:12 pm

TBH i dont think i have heard of any GM bitching about the HAG tactic in here for a long long time.......last tactic i think that was talked about was NZT........Just work around the HAG lines....you will find a way.....We all have had to when needed.

AP21 (ARZ) · Post by **AP21 (ARZ)** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:50 pm

Singin the BLUES wrote:TBH i dont think i have heard of any GM bitching about the HAG tactic in here for a long long time.......last tactic i think that was talked about was NZT........Just work around the HAG lines....you will find a way.....We all have had to when needed.

I'm starting to understand why people would feel hesitant voicing their opinion.

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:00 pm

Love the passion from PHI, but yes, I don't hear anyone else being as LOUD about it as him. Speak up, regardless of how long you've been here.

I would implore for all GMs, new and old, to trust that Bub will listen to your thoughts and ideas. If he decides to make a poll with multiple options, or dictate what the rule changes will be, it's with the intention of creating a fair and realistic environment.

Bub's status in the EHM world is unblemished, no one needs to worry about the integrity of the league being compromised.

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:02 pm

And why would that be? Do you see all the ppl voicing their concerns about the HAG times? I dont, because it is a non issue. Your brother is upset cause there could be a possibiliy of a GM having 80 seconds of HAG line time......Well......you COULD have 130-150 seconds of non HAG line time also.......it all depends on how you do your lines. And i think pretty much EVERY single EHM league i have been in allows for at least 60 seconds of HAG time if not more.....So voice your opinions all you want.......do what ya gotta do.....but for now, you are going to have to move around it because i dont think anything will happen THIS season, it is too late i think.....Gms have already made their teams with the adjustments they want....and if that gets change right now, then you will probably have some pretty pissed off GMS

CapsGM · Post by **CapsGM** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:18 pm

There isn't going to be much change. Not with half a week to go before the season starts and GMs building their teams all off-season with the current rules. Pat's proposal is more than fair and doesn't affect the current setup much.

Adam has taken a leave of absence, Quinn's left, and I'm close to doing one or the other. Does anybody wonder why? Four years ago, GMs would build their teams to counter the advantages that other teams had. Now, they just whine until the rules change.

With the turnover that's been going on lately, we're not going to change everything just for GMs that have been here for a month. Sorry, but based on previous experiences in this league, when new GMs join we have no idea if they'll blow up their team and disappear. If you're serious about EHEC - which it sounds like you are and that's great - let the season play out and we can continue discussing tactic changes for next year.

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:34 pm

My sentiments exactly

AP21 (ARZ) · Post by **AP21 (ARZ)** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:37 pm

All right, thanks anyways for hearing me out.

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:25 pm

H&G and NZT combined = not more than 50% of your ice time.

And ill volunteer to catch the fuckers that try to go over!

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:34 pm

Have only one line of each ...HAG & NZT max 40-50 sec each.......

Buffalo LEPS · Post by **Buffalo LEPS** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:03 pm

Keep it the way it is but minimum 30-40 sec 1st line

Post by **SharksGM** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:20 pm

I'm okay with the current proposal. That is all.

flyergp21 · Post by **flyergp21** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:24 pm

So if I don't agree with you, I'm bitching, right?

Let's clarify something before we go any further.

My brother and I used to play EHM a lot back in the days, in fact, he was running a similar league as EHEC, and he did for some time.

As EVERYBODY knows, there is a glitch in EHM, where the Hitting and Grinding tactic has like a SUPERNATURAL effect!!
(Don't try to deny this, anyone..)

So I don't give a damn if Joe or Steve or Tangerine build his/her team on toughness or not, it is NOT how it should be done. (Toughness is nice don't get me wrong, but as a COMPLEMENT)

My brother and I also thougth (as per rulebook) that you guys had strict rules to prevent any of that. Until we found out about the whole 10 seconds first line strategy to nullify the rule and allow GMs to use 80% of ice-time on Hit and Grind.

To be honest, IF I HAD KNOWN that in the first place, I wouldn't even be here ''bitching'' like some say...

But now that I have put time and passion building my team, I don't think I'd want to quit. BUT I want to be sure the league adresses the issue, like they probably had envisioned when the rule was created.

Forget the ''you could still use 120-130 seconds on other tactics''. OF COURSE, you could, but some will still use the maximum H and G allowed and reach 80%, which is wayyyy toooo much.

And finding a solution ISN'T, by any means, a monumental task, come on...

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:36 pm

Ok , ;ets just change the league for the new guy. Damn i didnt know that HAG was a super tactic

......Maybe i coul dhave beat Matt in the SCF here if i would have known that. Come on guys, that kind of shit should have been posted somewhere........like 10 yrs ago when EHM first came out

flyergp21 · Post by **flyergp21** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:50 pm

Ok, then tell me why a rule was put in place limiting the H and G tactic?

Right, because those guys had nothing else to do...

NO, they did because they know what you still don't.

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:58 pm

AP21 (ARZ) · Post by **AP21 (ARZ)** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:39 pm

Please stop making this sound like we are trying to "change the league" or asking for a "monumental change". The rule we are asking for is actually already in place. We simply need to follow its intent and make sure people don't circumvent it. Something to the effect of Matt's suggestion would be fine (H&G and NZT = maximum 50% of total icetime). I volunteer to do my share of "line watching" as well. Being close to the start of the season shouldn't be an argument in favor of staying put. Actually, it should be the other way around. Let's take this opportunity to fix the problem and not let it carry over to next offseason.

When you say that this should have been brought up 10 years ago, well... it has been in most every other EHM league. And I don't even know why I'm mentioning this, since EHEC already has such a rule. I know I'm new here, but I have been as involved as any other GM since joining EHEC. I've even invited two more GMs to join us. I will do everything I can to help EHEC grow, but I need your help as well. You can't shoot down every idea we come up with for the simple reason that we are "new". Don't worry, we'll prove we're worth it.

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:50 pm

So you would be fine with a lineup say like

Line 1 80 passing
Line 2 70 HAG
Line 3 40 D&C
Line 4 30 passing

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:51 pm

I second the brothers on every post, the H&G/NZT need to change. And, Tim is Adam coming back anytime soon? I miss him <3

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:54 pm

Singin the BLUES wrote:So you would be fine with a lineup say like

Line 1 80 passing
Line 2 70 HAG
Line 3 40 D&C
Line 4 30 passing

Ya and 3rd line could be NZT. Total of 110 for the glitch lines and 110 for real hockey.

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:59 pm

So under the new proposed rule change.....how would that be fair? It would be pretty much the same damn thing

flyergp21 · Post by **flyergp21** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:00 pm

Yes, like I said all the way, 50% max is fine with me.

flyergp21 · Post by **flyergp21** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:02 pm

And if I may add, if we have the 50% in place, the hell with the individual line ice-time.

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:03 pm

Because before we could use NZT and H&G for 50sec and NZT for 50sec and have 2 lines passing and dumping for 10sec each.

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:03 pm

flyergp21 wrote:And if I may add, if we have the 50% in place, the hell with the individual line ice-time.

What do you mean by that?

Singin the BLUES · Post by **Singin the BLUES** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:05 pm

Hahahaha, ok fine with me then.......TBH, i really dont think that would change anything......like this thread is called."line tactics"...it really isnt about the tactics, it is more about the time....So if you have say alot of ur players with good EN, you could even do up a line up like....

Line 1 90 Passing
Line 2 70 HAG
Line 3 70 NZT
Line 4 50 D&C

flyergp21 · Post by **flyergp21** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:18 pm

I just mean we don't need to enforce a ice-time minimum per line, like we talked about.

If we have to apply the 50% max, you could use 10 seconds shifts for example.

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:00 pm

It's great to see that some of the new blood like PHX and PHI are so passionate about EHEC. What I think you guys have to understand is that 90-95% of new GMs become inactive within the first couple months of taking over a team. Furthermore, in their short stint they usually make a catastrophic trade that really hurts the team. Not to say your voice shouldn't matter, but it's why certain people are hesitant to buy into what your saying. I hope you guys not only stick around, but continue to try and improve the league.

It's sad to see another one of our founding GMs might be leaving us soon, but Tim does have a point about what has gone on in this thread and the last few discussions regarding tactics. Discussion is good, even if it does get heated, but everyone should be taking the time to be sure their posts are constructive and not critical or rude. When it resorts to that sort of thing, I imagine it makes the people running the league wonder if it's worth their time and effort. Regardless of the rules, all teams have to abide by them so will be a level playing field.

We are uncharted territory here; we are without our founding leader, core EHEC GMs have decided to leave, and were using a new system to run things (GM Office). We need to come together as a group in order to ensure EHEC remains strong, long after season 5 is complete. I still plan to be here until EHEC closes it's doors and I hope the people still with us, old or new, feel the same.

Commish Bub(NYR) · Post by **Commish Bub(NYR)** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:48 pm

As Justin said, it's great to see the passion here. To the new GMs -- THANK YOU for your voices and your concerns. You may at times feel as if you're not being heard, but trust me, you are.

Having said that, as Tim said earlier, we are not going to make significant changes to this rule a week before the season, with all the work that GMs have put into their teams during the off-season.

So, I'll make two tweaks to my initial proposal. I'll leave this thread open for another day, then close it.

Thus:
1. Max 2 H&G and/or NZT lines, with a max total of 70 secs combined

2. Min 30-second first line shift, whatever the tactic

3. Min 20-second shift for any line, whatever the tactic

Calgary.Flames · Post by **Calgary.Flames** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:29 pm

Good!

Just so we're clear though, are we still not allowed H&G and NZT on the top line?

Jets GM · Post by **Jets GM** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:34 pm

Calgary.Flames wrote:Good!

Just so we're clear though, are we still not allowed H&G and NZT on the top line?

2. Min 30-second first line shift, whatever the tactic

Any tactic. And I re-iterate what I said earlier: Whatever Bub says is best is what I vote.

flyergp21 · Post by **flyergp21** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:39 pm

Ok, that means 58% could go to H and G. That's not ideal to me, but I'll live with that, and we'll see after the season.

Thank you Bub for everything you do, that we all agree on!

Have a great season yall!!!

La Sainte-Flanelle · Post by **La Sainte-Flanelle** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:06 pm

flyergp21 wrote:Ok, that means 58% could go to H and G. That's not ideal to me, but I'll live with that, and we'll see after the season.

Thank you Bub for everything you do, that we all agree on!

Have a great season yall!!!

Almost 64% actually, but whatever