Underaged players in AHL

[flyergp21]

We need to monitor it, as we do for salary cap and contracts.

I made a Vik of myself (!) and here are the teams over limit:

ANA (4)
OTT (5)
SJ (5)

If it is accepted, we should let everybody know.

Thanks,

[Jets GM]

Anaheim is over, but OTT and SJ have 3 underagers.

[flyergp21]

No, remember that 1995 and after born players are underaged for this season.

[Jets GM]

No, remember that 1995 and after born players are underaged for this season.

I think your misinterpreting the rule that allows players turning 20 before the end of the calender year during the regular season (this season for example was 2014) to not be counted towards your 3 under-agers.

Any player that is 20 years old is not considered a under-ager. If his 20th birthday was January 2nd 2015, he would be an underager before that date but no longer after.

[flyergp21]

NO, you're dead wrong on this one. (calendar year=december 31st, BTW the rule didn't change)

For this season, any player who turned 20 AFTER december 31st 2014 IS considered UNDERAGED.

[Jets GM]

NO, you're dead wrong on this one. (calendar year=december 31st, BTW the rule didn't change)

For this season, any player who turned 20 AFTER december 31st 2014 IS considered UNDERAGED.

This is not how we have monitored underagers in the past, and I suspect a staff member will re-enforce what I said earlier very shortly.

[flyergp21]

I can't wait.

[MartyFromOTTAWA]

NO, you're dead wrong on this one. (calendar year=december 31st, BTW the rule didn't change)

For this season, any player who turned 20 AFTER december 31st 2014 IS considered UNDERAGED.

Yah but as long as he's not 20 yo, isn't it?

Because I don't understand how a player could be 20 yo AND underager then.

[flyergp21]

This is also how it's done in real life.

Ok, here's an example:

Everybody knows who Max Domi is. Well, he just turned 20 on mar 2nd.

But he's playing this season as a 19 y.o. Otherwise, he couldn't have competed at the World juniors U20.

Connor McDavid. Turned 18 last january. But plays as a 17 y.o. His draft year.

[MartyFromOTTAWA]

This is also how it's done in real life.

Ok, here's an example:

Everybody knows who Max Domi is. Well, he just turned 20 on mar 2nd.

But he's playing this season as a 19 y.o. Otherwise, he couldn't have competed at the World juniors U20.

IIHF rules, not EHEC.

Connor McDavid. Turned 18 last january. But plays as a 17 y.o. His draft year.

I guess It's only a matter of civil majority. Probably that you have to be 18 yo (before september 15th?) when the NHL training camps start.

[MartyFromOTTAWA]

Anyway, wait and see!

[AP21 (ARZ)]

From the Rulebook:

C. Underaged AHL Players
To accelerate player development, AHL teams are allowed to carry up to three (3) junior-aged (under-
20) players. Players who will turn 20 before the end of the calendar year are not considered
underaged at the start of the season.


From EHEC's 2010 thread:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1192&p=24059&hilit=underage#p24059


Pretty simple stuff...

[Jets GM]

So if you want a 19 year old who does not turn 20 before 1/1/11, then he will count as an underager until he turns 20.

[Calgary.Flames]

Justin is right. Once a player turns 20, you can go ahead and sign another underaged player to your farm team.
This is how we've been doing it.

[AnaheimGM]

I have an extra underager to my system because i win this in the draft review at the beginning of the season.

[BlackHawk Down (Seb)]

Shouldn't we go with what the rulebook says ?

[Vik (Habs)]

I already monitor it and have posted when people are over.

[BlackHawk Down (Seb)]

C. Underaged AHL Players
To accelerate player development, AHL teams are allowed to carry up to three (3) junior-aged (under-
20) players. Players who will turn 20 before the end of the calendar year are not considered
underaged at the start of the season.

Where is it written that players who get 20 after the end of calendar year lose their underage status ? Because from what I understand with the rule is that if you get 20 before the end of the calendar year, you get the exemption, but not after.

[flyergp21]

Wow, I always thought we did it like in real life. If it's how you've been doing it, then so be it.

What I was saying is, this is not how it's done in real life. Why don't we follow the actual rules?

[Jets GM]

Right, you don't get the exemption if your born after the calender year, but that doesn't mean once your 20 you are still considered an underager. Anyone who is 20 years old or older is NOT an underager; this is implicit within the rule when they define an underager as 19 and under.

[BlackHawk Down (Seb)]

I understood things like Greg.

Because in this situation, if you want to think the IMPLICIT way, the logic choice was to refer to the real life/NHL. Certainly not the opposite.

[flyergp21]

It is not implicit, because you're using real life terminology like ''underaged'' players.

This term describes a player who's not allowed to play pro for the actual season. Nobody can ''lose'' his ''underaged'' status during one season.

The calendar year is also used to determine the ''hockey age'' of players. Like I said, for the 2014-2015 season, any player born in 1995 is playing as a ''19 year old''. Anybody who played some hockey knows that.

So you can't say the rule is IMPLICIT. In fact, it is all BUT IMPLICIT.

Now, if we want to proceed that way, it shall be written accordingly in the rulebook.

My 2 cent.

[TorontoGM]

This is EHEC, not the NHL.

[BlackHawk Down (Seb)]

September topic....

flyergp21 wrote:According to the rulebook, players who turn 20 during the calendar year do not count against the AHL limit of 3. So my understanding is that for the upcoming season, a 1995 born player won't be considered underage, am I right? Thanks,



AP21 (ARZ) wrote:My understanding is that such a player would have to turn 20 no later than December 31st.



Commish Bub(NYR) wrote:Alex is correct. The player must turn 20 by the end of 2014.



I think this is where it got confusing. Greg asked about the guys turning 20 during the season being considered ''underage'', the answer was that such a player would need to turn 20 before the end of 2014. Therefore, it was normal to think others would still count towards being underaged after the 2014 deadline.

Since Greg talked about ''upcoming season'' in his question, I also thought that the deadline was firm for all players, no matter the date they turn 20 in 2015. From what I read there, I thought it was either your not underage for the season if born before the end of 2014 or underage if born after.

I dont have any players underaged so no big deal for me....I am just saying nothing is/was clear.

[Calgary.Flames]

September topic....

flyergp21 wrote:According to the rulebook, players who turn 20 during the calendar year do not count against the AHL limit of 3. So my understanding is that for the upcoming season, a 1995 born player won't be considered underage, am I right? Thanks,



AP21 (ARZ) wrote:My understanding is that such a player would have to turn 20 no later than December 31st.



Commish Bub(NYR) wrote:Alex is correct. The player must turn 20 by the end of 2014.



I think this is where it got confusing. Greg asked about the guys turning 20 during the season being considered ''underage'', the answer was that such a player would need to turn 20 before the end of 2014. Therefore, it was normal to think others would still count towards being underaged after the 2014 deadline.

Since Greg talked about ''upcoming season'' in his question, I also thought that the deadline was firm for all players, no matter the date they turn 20 in 2015. From what I read there, I thought it was either your not underage for the season if born before the end of 2014 or underage if born after.

I dont have any players underaged so no big deal for me....I am just saying nothing is/was clear.

I agree this might have been confusing but I hope it's clear now.

[MartyFromOTTAWA]

Well, according to the rulebook, it seemed clear enough to me.

-If you're under 20, you're underaged, unless you turn 20 by the end of the calendar.

-If you're 20 (or over obviously), you're not underaged.

[BlackHawk Down (Seb)]

Easy Marty, rulebook was updated not long ago.

[MartyFromOTTAWA]

Easy Marty, rulebook was updated not long ago.

November 12th. So 4 months.

[Commish Bub(NYR)]

Players count as underage if they're not turning 20 by the end of December of the current season. BUT...once a guy turns 20 (say, on March 1), you can sign him as a non-underager on or after that date.

[flyergp21]

So forget the ''calendar year'' stuff then.

Let's just say a player is underage if he's under 20, period.

[Commish Bub(NYR)]

So forget the ''calendar year'' stuff then.

Let's just say a player is underage if he's under 20, period.

No. A 19-year-old who turns 20 in December won't count against your 3-underager limit. A 19-year-old who turns 20 in February will count towards the limit until he turns 20. Then you have a slot open to sign another under-20 player.

[Dallas Stars GM]

No. A 19-year-old who turns 20 in December won't count against your 3-underager limit. A 19-year-old who turns 20 in February will count towards the limit until he turns 20. Then you have a slot open to sign another under-20 player.

So, for example, my goalie prospect (who is on ELC right now) Ivan Bocharov, will be 20 yrs old in 18th of May this year (born in 1995) would not be considered as under-ager now?

[MartyFromOTTAWA]

Yes, he is still underaged.

[MartyFromOTTAWA]

Any player who's under 20 is considered underaged, unless, for the current season (say, 2014-2015), he turns 20 before the end of the calendar (12/31/2014, not 12/31/2015).

Any player who's 20 (or over obviously) is NOT underaged, whatever when he has turned 20.

For exemple:
Burakowsky (born on 9th february 1995) was considered underaged at the start of the season. But since he has turned 20 on february 9th of 2015, he's not underaged anymore so it opened a spot for a new underager.

[Commish Bub(NYR)]

Marty (OTT) is correct.

For example, Martin (DAL), your prospect Nikita Scherbak will not count as an underager on your farm team during the 2015-16 season, because his 20th birthday falls in 2015. However, Koshelev will count as an underager until he turns 20 on January 11, 2016. After he turns 20, you could, if you wished, sign another under-20 prospect to your farm team. Koshelev would no longer count against the limit of 3 underagers.

[SharksGM]

Wow, I always thought we did it like in real life. If it's how you've been doing it, then so be it.

What I was saying is, this is not how it's done in real life. Why don't we follow the actual rules?

The NHL rules for underage players are significantly different. Underage players with no CHL rights (some Europeans) can play in the AHL as soon as they're drafted. ELC years don't count (they "slide") for players who go back to juniors for a full season. Players can't be recalled from juniors except in emergencies due to injuries, and even then only temporarily. And of course they don't have the 3 underager exemption that we do.

[flyergp21]

Yes, all that is true.