Ratings

[Nero Avalanche]

Hello everyone, new Colorado GM here.

I just wanted to know how everybody feels about player ratings?
Is it normal that real life studs like PK Subban and Erik Karlsson aint even good enough to play in NHL?

Thats just so weird.
There is a guy who makes accurate player ratings every year. Why you guys dont use them?
It just makes a lot fun go away when some players who arent close to NHL level is playing in it and real life studs doesnt.
Big concern to continue playing here for me.

Who you feel? Is it really hard to get update every summer to be close to NHL level ratings and be more realistic?

Thanks

[Jets GM]

Like I said...

Because then you would have players on teams suddenly get better, or worse. What happens when you trade a guy who won't be good according to EHM, but then improves drastically in real life. No one would trade.

We've all operated under this system for all four seasons. It probably won't change, but I will bring it up to the staff and see if we can get creative or not.

[Nero Avalanche]

But that makes it so much more realistic.
Thats the fun part of being a gm is.
You look at NHL and see how your players are doing. You look at players real life values not Erik Karlssons and PK Subban 65 rating. Thats just bad.

[Jets GM]

It's not happening, this isn't real life, its better then.

[flyergp21]

It is a HUGE NO on my part, for all the reasons you know, obviously.

[Nero Avalanche]

I get that all of you have traded guys based on your ratings but it isnt more interesting to see how players do in real life and then trade? Values are based on real life stats.

It just sucks that some teams have half a team of players that doesnt even belong in the NHL.

[Jets GM]

No one has ever made a trade based off how someone has performed in real life. We use our knowledge about how EHM works, and the game of hockey, to run our teams. The closest I have come is overpaying for SC87, just because I wanted Crosby on my team.

We enjoy playing the game EHM, that's why were in this league. Stick around, and you will see why it's so cool.

[Nero Avalanche]

I need to know everyones rating on here just for the trades?
I know how they are doing in real life and thats how I value them.

[Jets GM]

Better strategies would exists to run your team.

[Calgary.Flames]

You'll eventually get to know every player in the file, don't worry.
A re-rate is not happening, though. This league's been running for a very long time and re-rating players at this point would absolutely make no sense.

[Virtual Jarmo]

Hello everyone, new Colorado GM here.

I just wanted to know how everybody feels about player ratings?
Is it normal that real life studs like PK Subban and Erik Karlsson aint even good enough to play in NHL?

Thats just so weird.
There is a guy who makes accurate player ratings every year. Why you guys dont use them?
It just makes a lot fun go away when some players who arent close to NHL level is playing in it and real life studs doesnt.
Big concern to continue playing here for me.

Who you feel? Is it really hard to get update every summer to be close to NHL level ratings and be more realistic?

Thanks

I've gotta chime in here, since this thing was originally my baby back in 2009. We had the players file and let EHM 1.15b generate the ceilings. We did not change them. The players file we used was created by the legendary Vik and we let EHM do the dirty work of the ratings. That left things a crapshoot, but we weren't going to adjust every player by hand. The draft classes were going to sort out the strength of the file. You've got to understand that it's nearly impossible to create a draft bust. Every first-round pick is going to make it, assuming he gets proper development time from an active GM. For every PK Subban or Erik Karlsson, there's a Mike Forney or superhuman Cam Fowler. Guys that are toiling in the AHL or teaching hockey clinics in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan are top-six or top-four guys in our league.

What makes us unique is what makes us unique. Personally, I wouldn't want to see the integrity of the league compromised by taking somebody else's file five seasons into the league's existence. There's no reason to re-rate players that GMs otherwise would have kept had they been rated the way they would hypothetically be rated in real life. We've added leadership and consistency to veteran players as a way to make them more relevant given the strength of our draft classes. That's our version of a re-rate.

Sure, it may not be realistic to new GMs to see a lot of guys that are NHL stars as minor leaguers here, but you've also got to understand that when this started five years ago, nobody had any idea how some of those guys would turn out. It's not fair to past or present GMs to re-rate those players now.

[Vik (Habs)]

The players file we used was created by the legendary Vik and we let EHM do the dirty work of the ratings.

The important thing to take away from Adam's post is to not blame Vik for the ceilings. Karlsson and Subban only being 78 POT, sure. Ceilings, leave me alone. Why can't you just leave me alone? I tried!

Sorry, I might have some unresolved issues from being the roster guy years ago.

[Jets GM]

I understand where Colorado is coming from, entering a new league and wanting to be able to easily relate to players in EHEC. However, it sounds like most do not like the idea.

I think it's safe to say it won't be happening.

[Commish Bub(NYR)]

This question has come up before, with GMs wanting to see underrated players in our game valued more closely with their real-life abilities. (At one point on my farm team I had Derek Stepan, Chris Kreider, and John Carlson -- none are rated well enough here to be regulars, although they are in the real NHL. However....my team, NYR, for example, is also littered with guys who will never be NHL stars but are good players in the EHEC.)

At the very beginning of the league, we did some minor correcting by giving all the GMs some ceiling points to add to two of their current prospects. But since then, I have consistently opposed doing any re-rates of players in the file, and I always will. There are plenty of good players in the file, they just won't always match up to the good ones in real life.

Like Justin said, I understand where Colorado is coming from, but GMs have been and continue to craft their teams based on an understanding of the way the players in the EHEC -- not the NHL -- are rated and will develop, and that will continue to be the case.

[Jungle Cats]

It's a recurring concern with most EHM leagues I've been in over the last 12 years, where although a new league starts with accurate enough rosters, within a few seasons of playtime things have gotten very turned around from the status quo in real life, and this can make established leagues a bit daunting/a tough sell/alienating for new gms, which makes it hard to inject new blood.

That said, EHEC's 'real-time' structure at least allows a fairly accurate draft class to be added each year - I remember in one of my older leagues, I was adding Mighty Ducks and Screech Owls to the draft class after I ran out of real life 12-13 year old prospects. That diminished the fun a bit too. EHEC doesn't have very many straight up 'Fictional' players as a result, which I think keeps things a little livelier.

I think we brought up this issue (s/w/r/t Subban) before, and it figured to be in like, nobody's best interests.

We've also discussed league fatigue, and had some good turnover and re-assignment of duties.
We've discussed file fatigue, just in general, w/r/t how to keep the 'talent levels' about the same without murdering the draft.

I think a little file fatigue is part of the cycle of an Eastside League, but then again, there's a lot of us still here. Obviously I don't want to even whisper 'reboot', because although it would be excellent to retain the GMs, our awesome website, our quite fabulous rulebook, any such reconfiguration would have to be done almost unanimously so as to avoid alienating people who have either very entrenched successful teams or 'had an awesome draft and want to see how this pans out.' We're not at that point, and at this moment, it doesn't seem very close.

My advice for new GMs who come in looking for a team they recognize is to embrace the alternate reality we've got going on in here and give yourself an opportunity to create weird stories you'd have never figured possible for players like Chris VandeVelde.

[Commish Bub(NYR)]

... an opportunity to create weird stories you'd have never figured possible for players like Chris VandeVelde.

Or Martin Hanzal's 80-point season. Parker always said that was proof that clicks did work.

Thanks for the thoughts, Zaq.

[Jets GM]

Yes, Zaq hit that one out of the park.

[SharksGM]

Fantasy hockey is fantasy. End of story.

If you can think of a reasonable way to have draftees turn out like they do in the NHL, I'm all ears. But then we'd be scouting players who must of us have never seen play. And then when would you re-rate them anyways? How?

What if I had taken Brendan Gallagher in the 2010 draft (he's not even in the file today). Should I bitch every season that he's underrated until someone edits him to 75 OV or something? What if he regresses in the NHL, should he get rerated every season?

There.is no reasonable way to keep the file realistic every season. Things have turned out reasonably well anyways, as far as alternate realities go. Player development is predictable and gamey but then this is a game. And even though development is predictable, there are still steals and bad picks and excitement and wheeling and dealing every draft. What more could you ask for?

[Jets GM]

13 GM's on right now, that is great to see boys!

/thread derail

[Virtual Jarmo]

The players file we used was created by the legendary Vik and we let EHM do the dirty work of the ratings.

The important thing to take away from Adam's post is to not blame Vik for the ceilings. Karlsson and Subban only being 78 POT, sure. Ceilings, leave me alone. Why can't you just leave me alone? I tried!

Sorry, I might have some unresolved issues from being the roster guy years ago.

Yeah, I meant to say ceilings. I think I made it a bit clearer when I said it was mostly a crapshoot.

Good to see you back around these parts, man. I didn't even realize until now. Sorry I didn't give you a proper welcome back, but here it is. Welcome back, Vik. Glad to see you're still active in the game. A lot of us owe you a debt of gratitude.